Q Bike Performance
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So what's the Q bike like? Well, on any project of this kind one hopes to get somewhere near to what is being aimed for, but in this case it's exceeded every expectation and added a totally unexpected big improvement as well, so I'm more than pleased. On the first proving run I started with my 4.9 mile test course, mainly uphill and gradually climbing to near the highest point of the North Downs, then returning to cut the run just short at a fixed time of 33 minutes and 9.57 miles, and average of 17.4 mph. My recorded derestricted Torq figure for this route is 30 minutes at 19.1 mph, and the Lafree Twist time 47 minutes at 12.2 mph. Since the Quando motor only powers to around 18 mph at most on a freshly charged battery, but generally to about 16 mph, much of the Q bike's performance here was due to the cycling efficiency, and the Torq comparison is especially creditworthy since the Q bike was burdened with a 5.5 kilo NiMh spare battery on the carrier, the Torq's time without that.
I normally only got 15 miles range from the Quando, and A to B reported exactly the same, the problem being that the single speed gear meant the rider couldn't make much of a contribution so the motor had to do nearly everything. Naturally I hoped this would improve a bit with added gears, and although the first near 10 miles of that run had been a full throttle performance trial, I decide to carry on and empty the battery to see what it had, hoping for 20 miles. Well, 20 miles passed still on green light, and I began to wonder what was going on after a while. Eventually the amber came on, I didn't note exactly when that was, but the red appeared a little short of 26 miles, the motor eventually cutting at 27.4 miles. With that including nearly 10 miles at full throttle, frankly I was a bit surprised. Since then I've twice had no difficulty in getting over 30 miles range on Li-ion using moderate care. This battery isn't new and calculated for it's age it will be at least 10% down on capacity, so a new battery could well give around 35 miles range in mixed country, or perhaps more with a rider younger than my seventy one years. Clearly the bicycle efficiency enabling much more effective use of the limited rider input was paying off handsomely. Having three batteries, easy to carry low, two Li-ion and one NiMh, long forays into much more distant countryside than formerly are now a very practical option.
That's the rather unexpected extra benefit that I mentioned, but there was another surprise. The older Li-ion battery that had become useless due to cutting out all the time in the Torq and Quando is now perfectly ok in the Q bike, since that never needs more than half throttle at any time, which that battery can still deliver. Only by trailer towing and using unnecessary full throttle can I make that cut out now. This demonstrates very clearly how having the bike conditions exactly right can make a huge difference to battery performance, something I already knew to some extent from the Torq. It's now even more clear that Li-ion battery “failure” can only be judged in the context of the use it's being put to, inappropriate use seemingly being at times the cause of apparent failure.
I normally only got 15 miles range from the Quando, and A to B reported exactly the same, the problem being that the single speed gear meant the rider couldn't make much of a contribution so the motor had to do nearly everything. Naturally I hoped this would improve a bit with added gears, and although the first near 10 miles of that run had been a full throttle performance trial, I decide to carry on and empty the battery to see what it had, hoping for 20 miles. Well, 20 miles passed still on green light, and I began to wonder what was going on after a while. Eventually the amber came on, I didn't note exactly when that was, but the red appeared a little short of 26 miles, the motor eventually cutting at 27.4 miles. With that including nearly 10 miles at full throttle, frankly I was a bit surprised. Since then I've twice had no difficulty in getting over 30 miles range on Li-ion using moderate care. This battery isn't new and calculated for it's age it will be at least 10% down on capacity, so a new battery could well give around 35 miles range in mixed country, or perhaps more with a rider younger than my seventy one years. Clearly the bicycle efficiency enabling much more effective use of the limited rider input was paying off handsomely. Having three batteries, easy to carry low, two Li-ion and one NiMh, long forays into much more distant countryside than formerly are now a very practical option.
That's the rather unexpected extra benefit that I mentioned, but there was another surprise. The older Li-ion battery that had become useless due to cutting out all the time in the Torq and Quando is now perfectly ok in the Q bike, since that never needs more than half throttle at any time, which that battery can still deliver. Only by trailer towing and using unnecessary full throttle can I make that cut out now. This demonstrates very clearly how having the bike conditions exactly right can make a huge difference to battery performance, something I already knew to some extent from the Torq. It's now even more clear that Li-ion battery “failure” can only be judged in the context of the use it's being put to, inappropriate use seemingly being at times the cause of apparent failure.
start while seated and the climb at over 6 mph, having to lean forward slightly to keep down it's wheelies. That's as steep as I have available, but it could easily do more, and I've towed my big trailer up 1 in 5 to prove it, though wheelies when towing up such a steep hill mean it would be best to strap a spare battery to the front to keep it down. In a roll-down test on the wide section of the long moderate Sanderstead Hill, both the Torq and Q bike produced the same 31.4 mph terminal speed, a very good result for a 20" wheel to match a 28". An idea of how high the Q bike cycling efficiency is can be got from the highest speed I can reach. I've never been able to pedal the Torq beyond it's top 22 mph assisted speed in still air on the flat, and with the power switched right off I start to struggle beyond 13 mph, but on the Q bike where the motor assistance is all over by 16 to 18 mph, depending on battery state, I can pedal to much higher speed whether switched on or not.
The correctly specified and adjusted derailleur components give the lie to those who think that for good changing only close ratios work and that an adequate range can therefore only be provided by using a large number of gears, which of course are unnecessary on an electric assist bike. The six gears here have some widely spaced ratios but the change is slick and instantaneous, even from the 24 tooth to the 34 tooth sprocket and back down.
The parts additions and removals have resulted in a weight gain of just 320 grams leaving the total still just under 25 kilos and still in the lightest group of electric bikes, only a few grams heavier than the Torq, which is the lightest eZee bike. At the time of most of the tests my weight was around 75 kilos. My trailer weighs 14 kilos and it's tyres' drag brings that to the equivalent of over 30 kilos, with a small trailer load the equivalent load will be 130 kilos or more, so the Q bike's performance will be good for an over 20 stones solo rider. That's why I say good design makes compromise totally unnecessary where e-bike performance is concerned, legal e-bikes really can handle anything met, rider regardless.
It's sometimes said that Torq riders ride with a smile, though from personal experience I know that can get a bit strained on long steep hills! On the Q bike I ride with multiple smiles. First because I made it possible, and that's a feeling without equal. Second because I know that it can tackle any cycling eventuality on the road, no matter how tough or how little work I feel like doing. Third, because I'm confident that there isn't another British legal bike anywhere that can match all of it's many abilities. If one ever does get close to it's universal capability, I'll just fold the Q bike down to a third of it's size in seconds and pop it into my small car boot to show it's versatility and have the last laugh!
I really would like to see something equivalent to this bike in production from eZee. I spent £285.95 creating this, not counting post and packings, and added to the £745 that the bike cost me, that's £1031. eZee could do it for less, the tyres alone that I've used costing over £50 retail. I think there is a market for a quality folding or rigid bike like this which has little compromise in it's capabilities for anyone. I believe it's the one e-bike where a reasonable question “Will it do this?” rarely has to be asked.
So it's perfect then? Nothing ever is, and I have some thoughts on "guilding the lily". The carrier could still be lower down if it's side tubes were modified and I might do that. I'm currently looking at unorthodox locking provisions and have an open mind to possibilities, so any opportunity I see for improvement in it's comprehensive capability will be explored. What really matters though is that a point has been proved, and all e-bike manufacturers really ought to be doing better. None of them is fully achieving what customers reasonably expect, most falling a long way short of that. If a private individual can achieve this result by conversion of an existing e-bike using very limited facilities, there's no excuse.
The outcome for me is that the Twist is laid up at the rear of my garage as a towing and utility standby in case the Q bike is ever off the road, and I haven't ridden the Torq for four weeks. In a constantly hilly area it gives very little benefit from it's high top speed and is outclassed in so many other ways by the Q bike. I'm still reviewing what I might do with it.
Feedback and constructive criticisms appreciated on the Pedelecs Q bike thread.
The correctly specified and adjusted derailleur components give the lie to those who think that for good changing only close ratios work and that an adequate range can therefore only be provided by using a large number of gears, which of course are unnecessary on an electric assist bike. The six gears here have some widely spaced ratios but the change is slick and instantaneous, even from the 24 tooth to the 34 tooth sprocket and back down.
The parts additions and removals have resulted in a weight gain of just 320 grams leaving the total still just under 25 kilos and still in the lightest group of electric bikes, only a few grams heavier than the Torq, which is the lightest eZee bike. At the time of most of the tests my weight was around 75 kilos. My trailer weighs 14 kilos and it's tyres' drag brings that to the equivalent of over 30 kilos, with a small trailer load the equivalent load will be 130 kilos or more, so the Q bike's performance will be good for an over 20 stones solo rider. That's why I say good design makes compromise totally unnecessary where e-bike performance is concerned, legal e-bikes really can handle anything met, rider regardless.
It's sometimes said that Torq riders ride with a smile, though from personal experience I know that can get a bit strained on long steep hills! On the Q bike I ride with multiple smiles. First because I made it possible, and that's a feeling without equal. Second because I know that it can tackle any cycling eventuality on the road, no matter how tough or how little work I feel like doing. Third, because I'm confident that there isn't another British legal bike anywhere that can match all of it's many abilities. If one ever does get close to it's universal capability, I'll just fold the Q bike down to a third of it's size in seconds and pop it into my small car boot to show it's versatility and have the last laugh!
I really would like to see something equivalent to this bike in production from eZee. I spent £285.95 creating this, not counting post and packings, and added to the £745 that the bike cost me, that's £1031. eZee could do it for less, the tyres alone that I've used costing over £50 retail. I think there is a market for a quality folding or rigid bike like this which has little compromise in it's capabilities for anyone. I believe it's the one e-bike where a reasonable question “Will it do this?” rarely has to be asked.
So it's perfect then? Nothing ever is, and I have some thoughts on "guilding the lily". The carrier could still be lower down if it's side tubes were modified and I might do that. I'm currently looking at unorthodox locking provisions and have an open mind to possibilities, so any opportunity I see for improvement in it's comprehensive capability will be explored. What really matters though is that a point has been proved, and all e-bike manufacturers really ought to be doing better. None of them is fully achieving what customers reasonably expect, most falling a long way short of that. If a private individual can achieve this result by conversion of an existing e-bike using very limited facilities, there's no excuse.
The outcome for me is that the Twist is laid up at the rear of my garage as a towing and utility standby in case the Q bike is ever off the road, and I haven't ridden the Torq for four weeks. In a constantly hilly area it gives very little benefit from it's high top speed and is outclassed in so many other ways by the Q bike. I'm still reviewing what I might do with it.
Feedback and constructive criticisms appreciated on the Pedelecs Q bike thread.
Now with appropriately geared rider power added with minimal efficiency losses, the hill climbing is effectively without limit. 1 in 5 (20%) in second gear seated at 8 mph at half throttle with complete ease, or in first gear with only a quarter throttle at almost 7 mph so easily that a 10 year old could do it. What's more, the Q bike could be adjusted for many 10 year olds, not something true of most electrics! On a 1 in 4.5 (22.5%), a stationary
Above on the left, two of my test hills, the B 269 Titsey Hill, and from near it's foot, then turning north, Clarks Lane rising to the B 2024. The latter is used by two top London cycling clubs for their hill climb trials. On the right, Hesiers Hill and Beddlestead Lane.
12.5.2007
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